Common Confusion About Agency, Will, Soul etc. of Humans and Biological and Artificial Agents - Todor's comment on The Asymptotic Illusion: On the Ontological Limitations of Artificial Agency

A discussion about the paper on Academia.edu:
* The Asymptotic Illusion: On the Ontological Limitations of Artificial Agency, Mohamad Al-Zawahreh, 25.12.2025
https://www.academia.edu/s/06c854dde5

Todor Arnaudov
10 days ago

Hi, this is a common confusion - building a straw-man of Turing machines or "computation" as defined in this abstract sense, while the counterpart argument refers to the full "stack" definition of the systems, down to the lowest level virtual universes (See Theory of Universe and Mind, T.A. 2001-2004+, e.g. "Stack Theory is yet another fork of Theory of Universe and Mind", 2025). Neither computers, nor LLMs, AI (in whatever form) or whatever are "just" algorithms, "computation" etc. - they are immersed in the Universe and their implementation includes those "non-computable" parts as well. On the other hand, all these advanced thinking, theories, logic, reasoning about "quantum" etc. would have been impossible without all the science and technology, all "mechanical" processing etc., i.e. the mighty "conscious" being wouldn't have been capable to even formulate these problems and their [personal] "superiority", they would have been just silly apes. There are a lot of discussions about that in TOUM, including the latest additions in the hyperbook "The Prophets of the Thinking Machines: AGI & Transhumanism: History, theory and pioneers; past, present and future". One point which I addressed in a letter to the cognitive semioticists Jordan Zlatev: the LLMs have no consciousness, but "just" etc. [see in appendix "Reflections on Everything" (Listove) from "The Prophets"]. However I haven't read anything but my own thoughts regarding the following problem, which is valid for humans and their mind as well: WHAT and WHERE *exactly* the LLM is located, why and who (evaluator-observer) sets the boundary exactly there (at what resolution of causality-control and perception) and what *exactly* it is when fully defined in order to function. It is not "just" the weights of the NN (what the h* is "NN" in the physical universe - it includes the whole hardware, all chips, all connected computers - your PC or smartphone, the routers, the Internet servers, the main GPU servers; it included the original data, the data in the memory (other representation); it includes also the *HUMANS* who interact, their biology, their states; it is a result of a chain of operations and activities of all related humans and other technologies and ultimately it requires the whole universe to be what it is. However, this is refuted and "vulgarized" to "they are algorithmic, they are "just 1s and 0s", "switches" (the earlier nonsense about computers, still defended e.g. by F.Faggin). No, computers are not "just 1s and 0s", and they emerged and operate in the same Universe as "humans"; besides humans are created and built also *WITH* the participation of all computers and technologies, i.e. humans are *PARTS of the machines* as well. "We are merged" without the need of "physical"/"short-molecular-distance"* way of interaction. See also an article about that in "The Prophets ..." in volumes: "Science Fiction. Futurology. Cybernetics. Transhumanism" and cited also as an appendix in the small monograph "Universe and Mind 6", which is related to this discussion. * Another school with this confusions (or choices) is "Relevance Realization", which is explaining definitions of Theory of Universe and Mind, published more than 20 years earlier, whoever they put a stamp "this is not computable", "the opposite of computation", while the original claims it is computable, but hierarchical, multi-scale, multi-domain, multi-precision, preemptive, has "interrupts" etc., they are built by the same fabric of the Universe computer and they interact with it and fetch "sensory" data from the common "pool". The real computers are like that, they are not the primitive and abstract strictly serial, one scale, "fixed symbols" Turing machine outputting AAABBBBBAAAAC-HALT. --- References: * Stack Theory is yet another Fork of Theory of Universe and Mind, T.A. 2025, SIGI-2025, https://artificial-mind.blogspot.com/2025/09/stack-theory-is-yet-another-fork-of.html

* Reflections on Everything/Listove (Листове, Листове по всичко) - a volume from The Prophets of The Thinking Machines: Artificial General Intelligence and Transhumanism: History, Theory and Pioneers; Past, Present and Future, T.Arnaudov, 2025 https://github.com/twenid/sigi-2025 See the cited excerpt from Todor's letter to Jordan Zlatev on what and where the LLMs are (it will be published as an article/paper as well), after p.340 "* Sentience or consciousness of another “entity” is in the eyes of the evaluator * Thoughts from a letter by Todor Arnaudov to the cognitive semioticist Jordan Zlatev , 16.8.2025" * "We are merged..." - see my article, answering Tim Tyler's video, published both in Reflections on Everything and in the volume "Science Fiction. Futurology. Cybernetics. Transhumanism" from The Prophets ... *Коментар на Тодор Арнаудов към видеото на Тим Тайлър „Да се слеем [с машините]“ от 10.2023 Tim Tyler: Let's merge! (...), p. ~175 in Listove The text in English, posted on Youtube: Todor: IMO humans and machines - actually the technologies, the recognizable systems, entities in the Universe (and the ones which are not recognizable for now) are merged anyway. The human individuals as bodies, entities are one "view", "rendering", a way of sampling of the actual intrinsic representation of the underlying properties and processes. The same goes for any piece of hardware, computer, robot, any object. They are what they are under a particular sampling of the data, in another sampling they are physically, causally, energic-based etc. connected and part of the causality, influence, events network and interrelated. In one philosophical school humans are defined as the set of "social relations". Also human individuals without technology and starting from scratch with no previous culture and language, which is also technology, are not very much more capable than apes in the first generations, or in the first hundreds of thousands of years. Technology, the environment and previous recorded knowledge and the social, scientific and technological "software" that gets loaded into our minds, all from the whole universe allow human beings to be so clever etc. So we are part of the human-machine (technology) system anyway.

---

The distributed representation of humans and everything in a field-like form, the causal id/causal tags* theory etc. is discussed also in other volumes, such as "Universe and Mind 6" and "Is Mortal Computation Required for the Creation of Universal Thinking Machnes" at SIGI-2025. ** Note that "causal IDs" in my explanation are not referring to Michael T. Bennet's "causal identity" concept, but the match of similarly titled concepts in his fork (with unrecognized prior work) is funny. The causal IDs in my speculations are about hypothetical information and interaction entities or signals which allow or make the wholes, beings, systems to "feel" as a whole. I derived them from the insight that all systems in all scales and multi-scales encounter inevitable lags between their constituent parts, and these lags are varied. One way of a given causality-control unit - the building blocks in TOUM - to know that a signal is from a given whole, could be by special interactions and information, these "causal IDs", which could be updated and kept active for particular reasons, e.g. a chain of particular chemical, physical or whatever interactions within given .... etc. and fade. E.g. on the page on Github about TOUM in late 2023; most of "Universe and Mind 6" was written in the Spring of 2023 and in 2023-early 2024, but it was published as a completed monograph in 2025. https://github.com/Twenkid/Theory-of-Universe-and-Mind

  

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BgGPT-3 27B халюцинира и угодничи - Тест 1

https://youtu.be/4yOlcUC_x3I

Тестваме BgGPT3: дали най-мощният супермодерен* изкуствен интелект на Балканския полуостров, Източна Европа, Региона и размера си знае за българските пионери в българския изкуствен интелект? Тест №1. Халюцинации и угодничене ("sycophancy") от първите въпроси в две минути.

Тестван без сайта на INSAIT и без скъпа видеокарта от Свещеният сметач - авторът на оригиналната стратегия, която INSAIT присвоиха с 20 години закъснение,.ч :))

Четете в най-новото издание на книгата, корекции и редакции до 31.3.2026 г., първо издание: 31.3.2025. https://twenkid.com/agi/download.php?file=Purvata_Strategiya_UIR_AGI_2003_Arnaudov_SIGI-2025_31-3-2025.pdf

and on ResearchGate.

Гледайте в канала и другите тестове на предните BgGPT-та и представянето на истинския първи български GPT модел: GPT2-Medium-BG (2021), а не BgGPT (2024).

#bggpt #insait #ai #agi #bulgaria #comedy  #ml #kaggle

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Corrections and updates of the hyperbook: The Prophets of the Thinking Machine - AGI & Transhumanism (...)

Quick news

* It is busy at The Sacred Computer, (...)  ramping up my "supercomputer" Petak I. New nodes or compute resources are welcome - see how to help in the project Vsy (Vseboravitel) or contact me.

* Algorithmic Complexity ... - Corrections of typos, 16.3.2026

 * **Reflections on Everything (Listove)  ...** - 22.3.2026: Coming next - corrections of typos, minor stylistic edits and clarifications and additions/updates;

* **The Prophets ... - Main Volume** - 22.3.2026 - also possibly a few corrections/additions in the Main Volume, new matches; measurement of grip strength with a more reasonable electronic dynamometer (90 kg max -- now 53.3 kg) etc.

** The Main Volume (edition 21.1.2026) was uploaded on Github too, so far it was in my web site because of its size and convenience. 

Read the hyperbook and all volumes and appendices at SIGI-2025, links below.

You can support or join the oldest AGI laboratory and the yearlong virtual conference SIGI-2026 as a participant and co-organizer!


Various ways to read The Prophets:

http://twenkid.com/agi/

http://twenkid.com/agi/list.php

https://github.com/Twenkid/SIGI-2025/

For now a small part of the works are uploaded to ResearchGate and Academia, many chapters from the large volumes are like whole papers. I will publish many chapters as articles as well.

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"Full unemployment is the goal - the gift to mankind of the AGI community (Eray Ozkural)" - a comment by Todor Arnaudov

 Публикацията на Eray Ozkural

---

Eray Ozkural

5 д ·[15.3.2026]

Full unemployment is the goal.

This is our gift to mankind as the AGI community.

Make no mistake about it. We've always known this to be the case.

It's up to you, so-called "mankind", to make the best use of this wonderful gift.

Should you misuse this gift and create strife among your petty and egotistical selves, this should be attributed to your lack of intelligence.

Remember. It was us.

Todor Arnaudov [COMMENT #1]

Eray, I am not sure ... that this is the goal of the so called AGI community (or that there is one monolithic one), especially of the ones who are and who aim at monetizing it, unless they are cosmists/transhumanists. Our (mine) goal is "next step in evolution", being forever young, immortality, progress, being smarter and smarter, knowing more and more, being more capable etc. and also "free". "Employment" is a concept in *political states*, their organization as a world-system and the tightly coupled economy and the structures of the system around that social relations - either capitalism, socialism, something in-between, feudalism, and they all have some forms of slavery-like hierarchical relations of power and suppression. The communism in its "end-goal" is about making the political states obsolete, one of the directions predicted or aimed by the classic communists were the reduction of the difference between physical and mental labor (which has gradually happened and is happening now more illustrative with the display how elementary intellectual work actually was - that was known and suggested by prophets, e.g. me, decades ago). E.g.: https://artificial-mind.blogspot.com/2013/10/creative-intelligence-will-be-first.html

"Intellectual work will be done in 1 ms for free."*

However, if the system is "capitalism", the profit comes from having inequality, dependent inferior causality-control units which at the bottom are slaves - workers are also slaves, "wage slaves".

Besides, "power overrides intelligence" and intelligence alone doesn't produce profit - it needs power and material resources as well*.

Currently in the "bifurcation" point or so there are some radical paradoxes as well:

From one hand, automation, acceleration and "mass production" of "intellectual labor artifacts", promises for "abundance", while on the other hand - proposals for extension of the retirement age (e.g. in Germany, Netherlands), inflation, economical decline, wars which can lead to food and resources price hikes, famine for millions or billions etc.

There are declines or even recessions, not "economical growth" and humans in their current form need physical and material resources for which AI doesn't help yet or don't solve [the required problems] - e.g. the prices of homes, which reflect the social relations and distributions and property laws and they could be solved politically and economically - they are not about "AI".

Most of the humans, billions [of them] live in modest conditions or in misery and AI or AGI without physical and social and organizational transformations will not help them, they may be slaves for harvesting the mineral resources for the production of robots or live not much differently than now, like the general "futuro-anachronism" - primitive infrastructure, slums, people driving horse-cars, but with smartphones, tablets and talking to AI. ("Cyberpunk"-like clichés)

 

* [Exact citation: "(...) The bottom line is that the "white collars" are more endangered in current-time economy. Perhaps that kind of economy could hardly survive the AGI revolution. I guess it may turn inside-out  [upside down] for a while - the low-skill workers could get higher pay, because intellectual activities will be done in 1 ms for free... ;)", T.Arnaudov, 2.10.2013]

[1. See "Power Overrides Intelligence", SIGI-2025 and AGI List, my letter to Oxford University from 2012 and earlier publications about the "danger of AI" which are dangers of *HUMANS* and *POWER*, not of intelligence or superintelligence.

2. * Letter to Oxford, 2.2012:  https://artificial-mind.blogspot.com/2012/02/philosophical-and-interdisciplinary.html

3. * Power overrides Intelligence, 2025: https://artificial-mind.blogspot.com/2025/12/power-overrides-intelligence-agi-list.html

]

Todor Arnaudov [COMMENT #2]

One brief line I missed to add: "unemployment" in another social organization and relations where it means FREEDOM from the slavery of most humans in their work life. Unemployment in another sense, where "job" as something people are forced to do "in order to earn a living" is "unnecessary". However in current state (in both senses) this means "misery" and that's how humans are trained (like dogs) to believe that it is the only way. That "machines/AI will take their jobs", i.e. they will be left poor or to die, i.e. "AI/machines are evil", but not the humans and structures who are in charge and have the power to shape the social relations and the rules.

• 4 д
• Отговор
• Редактирано
  
  
  

+ What "the humanity" will receive depends on social, organizational, political, power-related etc. forces, not just on the "intelligence". Geniuses are usually powerless and nobody listens to them, unless they are connected and working for the Power, or they are not geniuses, but just "talents" and they have always been aligned with and served the Power and not "the intelligence"*: knowledge, progress, "true ground-breaking innovation" etc. (except the intelligence services, LOL, that special kind of "intelligence"). That is also one of the sources and reasons for the obsession of the "AI leaders" under the spotlight with "AI alignment" - making sure and securing that the machines will be slaves of the "right" master(s) and there won't be "unpredictable, uncontrollable" (undesirable for them and for their benefit) changes in this domain, because otherwise "it will kill "us" all", "exterminate the humanity" etc. bombastic infantile threats and fear-mongering, sent to the powerless and poor plebs, who have no power, neither financial, nor productional ("means for production") - they are mostly viewers, "observers".

+ 28.3.2026
* See older publications since 2002 from The Sacred Computer and Theory of Universe and Mind - there is no such monolithic and united entity as "humanity" or some "humanity's common goal". There is stratification, layers and contradictory goals.

 https://www.facebook.com/eray.ozkural/posts/pfbid0TXXNPa1WqnMGUoq9QjkhZookBSg87s4NoHdazvqJQLVV5gegCYNiUGzDQTgi8G5Pl?__cft__[0]=AZZNLCfdbUUeI6paSNukU5GsKWjDifpRLVRjUbU64bISUZGA9IRzXf5vjWBdrOQH5MRvUO57DYG-iD1bZvQWtsO4R05eie0S1NC7BtCgHkEOrRy7Ij-jNkH_ZBk8hocGKCie92I49dDEhET1OlsZ8onLnCuRdTVFY5UeyGqmnPSbZw&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R

Russia aim at importing 12 million younger workers from the less-developed world until 2032 and keep the "veterans" working until older age.

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