Humans also experience "model collapse" like LLMs - Todor's comment on the talk "Model Collapse Ends AI Hype" ... LLM new information generation

Todor Arnaudov's comment on the conclusions of: "Model Collapse Ends AI Hype

Theos Theory и още 2

4,8 хил. показвания преди 2 дни #AI #aihype #llm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShusuVq32hc

Todor: Humans suffer the same phenomenon*, but even worse.

What if the next generation of a human couple (living isolated) learns only from the mental output of the previous generation? What if you had to learn only from what your parents have written or what they can write? (Even the stone age populations weren't trained like that.)
In addition, humans don't learn and their behavior is not defined only from the textbooks they read.

See the early AGI in 2001-2004 and 2000s - Theory of Universe and Mind (TUM). Language is not the text, the linear sequence of letters, "tokens", "symbols", as it is still confused in many occasions; the complete and functional language is multimodal, multiscale, multiprecision, ... "omnimodal" in modern terms and is connected with the will, or "action", "agentic" etc.

It's  "grounded", mapped to other modalities, to other kinds of data and transformations. There is inter-level, inter abstraction level, range-level, precision, domain, context ... etc. mapping, general "grounding".

So, what if a human learns only from books or notes, written by his immediate parents: mother and father? (How did he learn to read is another problem.)

They have to create the entire "curriculum" (and in the current LLMs it's not the human way, see again Theory of Universe and Mind and the "зародиш на разум" - Seed AI).

Your mother and father have to write you the primary book to teach you the alphabet, to write and to read, to calculate, the textbooks and corpora of texts for all grades, your university textbooks etc., the common sense corpora, the novels, the news, dictionaries, references, manuals, programming code, programming code of the computers you use, their electronic schematics, design of all the equipment, architecture of the buildings, mechanical engineering, material science, chemistry, ... etc. and the child should learn it itself *by reading* this body of work, "input-output" pairs, possibly RLHF, but created by the parents and fixed.
What have your parents written? 

<li> How much of the dataset could an "average" of even "smartest" parents complete, if they have to work in a "closed books"-like exam as well, only what they have already remembered?<li> What did they remember from what they studied? It would be ridiculous.

Most humans struggle with writing and understanding complex texts in general even for the very moment of reading, e.g. measured by answering questions on a long sentence with entangled clause structure, what if they have to explain it? 

What humans believe they know or understand, if measured as they capability to express or encode it, write it, recreate it, is ridiculously smaller than what they can actually express givn such strict requirements, it is a passive "believe of knowledge and understanding".

Then, their children could be allowed to start interacting after this kind of instruction; then they shouldn't learn from everything they know or that they believe they know, say in text only, and their children can only learn from that body of work, without additional interaction with the real world or other resources? the interaction).

* A severe punishment in jail is the person to be locked in a single cell in isolation without communication with other human beings - if that continues for a "long time", the prisoner may go insane. Sensory deprivation (immersion in special liquid etc.) also cause "strange" mental states and may lead to insanity, i.e. "catastrophic model collapse". [+5.3.2026]
//////Another take:

We see that humans have studied a lot of things and they believe they understand them, but in fact they barely remember a tiny portion in their "personal" memory, the speed of output is so low that even if they could reproduce a lot of it, it would take too long with current means and technologies*; they need to constantly help themselves with references and external tools where a lot of their "hallucinated" scale of memory and skills have always resided and they only "orchestrate" with their brain and body - just like current LLMs; finally, like the LLMs, humans often make silly cognitive mistakes, although they believe how clever they are. 
Probability estimations are a famous case, although I think it's too unsurprising as when asked verbally humans do not think this way, they obviously don't follow the procedure or the formulas, but may say something ad-hoc, be confused and misguided by the way the questions are formulated etc. (Which item is heavier? A kilogram of wool or a kilogram of iron? Ask a child or an adult who is under stress.) - if you know the LLMs weaknesses, that would sound familiar to you, too. (...

See externalism, extended mind - also part of the foundational TUM.

* TOUM, also TUM https://github.com/Twenkid/SIGI-2025/

* See "Humans are far worse than LLMs in many ways - a brief analysis", 2025
https://artificial-mind.blogspot.com/2025/08/humans-are-far-worse-than-llms-in-many-ways.html 
~38 min: ~ Sampling from good distribution is easy, but the saved information is about the quantity needed to find the good distribution.

Can LLM produce new information etc.

The ultimate source of "new" information is the Image/Intuition (Schopenhauer), нагледът (Bulgarian) or "empirical data" (and the internal intuition, Will/introspective discoveries.

Final conclusions, 44 min:

Which one creates new information?1.Randomized sampling?
2.Interpolation?
3.Extracting implications?

How exactly all of these are defined, including "new" and the evaluator-observer, the environment (the Universe) etc.?
The definitions will give the answer.

Either there is "Nothing new under the sun" or "new" given this and that requirements, memory, definitions.

See also the classic TOUM, where this is already addressed as well, since 2001, "Man and Thinking Machine: Analysis of the possibility of creating a Thinking Machine and some disadvantages of humans and organic matter in comparison". "Creativity is imitation at the level of algorithms", 2003. For example a discussion on the Kibertron's forum in 2004 where I reasoned  about whether any system inside the Universe can really be flexible, if the lowest level laws/rules/machine code of the Universe is fixed or at least the subuniverses cannot change them. They may appear as "modifying" their code or "evolving", but in fact they would only "execute what they were told" - by the machine code of the Universe, the mother virtual Universe, their actual description at the highest possible resolution of causality and control, and not the format, parameters, features, capabilities, low resolution virtual universes which they can perceive, comprehend and control; what they believed they modified or could modify is in fact a low resolution representation and their own image, representation, believe, "hallucination" about what their behavior, intentions, structure etc. actually reflect and "are" in their foundations.

* Imagine also a relaxed requirements in "normal circumstances of education", after say 7 or 11 or 12 years or whatever age, if you can use only your own notes for reference. Only what you have handwritten or typed yourself, and if you are "unimodal", text-to-text, you are not allowed to read anything else, to have other sensory inputs etc.  

** impossible for a human, because everything is multimodal

Read More

Общ изкуствен интелект и Трансхуманизъм: Какво е Универсален изкуствен разум - AGI?

Гледайте нов запис (с допълнителни бележки) на една от уводните лекции от първия в света интердисциплинарен курс по Artificial General Intelligence - AGI.

 

 

https://youtu.be/r582MVKj81A

Слайдове др.:

http://research.twenkid.com
http://artificial-mind.blogspot.com 

Следват продължения! 

Съдържание: 0:00 Въведение
0:30 Защо възникват новите термини: AGI, Универсален изкуствен разум
1:13 За обзора на тесния ИИ - препратка към друго предаване
1:40 Първенството на курса в света: 8 години преди MIT
2:42 Първата фейсбук група по AGI е българска: 5 години преди другите
3:16 Какво е Универсален изкуствен разум? (УИР)
3:28 За ИИ из интервюто за сп. "Обекти" бр. 5, 11/2009
4:20 Накратко за УИР - слайд 3
4:52 Как ще изглежда мислещата машина? - из интервюто за "Обекти"
5:39 Някои термини, накратко за УИР - Слайд №3
6:11 Машината на Гьодел на Юрген Шмидхубер
6:21 Личности в общия ИИ
6:21 Какви опити се правят за създаване на УИР? - из интервюто
7:33 Разграничения между общия и слабия/тесния ИИ и недостатъци на втория - Слайд №4
9:25 Какво все още пречи да се създаде мислеща машина? - из интервюто
10:24 Технологична сингулярност, Кърцуейл, миниатюризация
10:42 Singularity Institute - из интервюто
10:50 Технологична сингулярност - закон на Мур - Слайд 7
11:16 Прогнози за планирания технологичен размера на транзисторите
11:34 Какво реално се случи в полупроводниковата индустрия
11:41 Краят на миниатюризацията и какво следва?
12:05 Квантови компютри
12:13 Нанотехнологии и молекулярни технологии
12:17 Киборзи
12:22 Ред е на мислещите машини - надтелесност и многото възможни форми на машинния ум
12:54 Мислещите машини са...
13:23 Разумът е предсказател на бъдещите възприятия въз основа на миналия опит - из интервюто
14:04 А ако машините решат да ни унищоат като въстанат срещу нас? Истинското послание на филма "Терминатор 2" - кои всъщност са "лошите"?
15:20 Етика за роботи - трите закони на роботиката на Азимов
15:45 Приятелски настроени машини - Friendly AI
16:28 Singularity institute - институт по сингулярността ("сингуларността") на Рей Кързуейл
16:59 Какво е "душа"? - препратки към литература
17:49 Какво е съзнание?
19:42 Трансхуманизъм или H+ - Transhumanism; свръхчовечност, надтелесност, космизъм
20:25 Прехвърляне на съзнанието и възможно ли е? - Mind Uploading
21:13 Парадокси на човешкия мозък: универсален или специализиран? Изчислителна мощ.
22:25 Хибриди: универсален разум + универсален компютър
23:12 Brain-Computer Interface BCI - пряка връзка мозък-машина
23:20 Буквална симулация на мозъка: Almaden Institute на IBM и Blue Brain
23:49 Заключителни думи и покана за следващите лекции и предавания
#изкуственинтелект #agi #artificialgeneralintelligence #ИИ #УИР #футурология #трансхуманизъм #космизъм #сингуларност #сингулярност #h+

Read More

Human Naked Intelligence of Average People is Going Backwards and the Human Cognitive Capacity Augmentation-Extending is a Matter of Degree

A comment of mine on a post that I encountered today, the full version of a partial one that I left there: http://www.singularityweblog.com/podcamp-toronto-2014-hole-ai-transhumanism-end-of-humanity/

It is addressed to the autrhor of the presentation and the article, see in the link.

I'd question that the exponential growth is hard to understand, it's rather a trivial mathematical concept (geometric progression), that is multiplication and sequences of multiplications - rather than additions. The example with the chess is an illustration of where an inconsiderate decision may lead, and the wisdom of the master.

However human sensory system is exponential even at its low level and multiplication is basic maths.

I'd question also the "intuitive" truth that everything is accelerating - one important thing that is not, which is going backwards, is the average/ordinary people's intelligence, when they are "naked".


Dumb people with smart technology can do more sophisticated tasks now, than some clever men in the past, but that's only apparently, and that intelligence is in the machines and in the other clever (or already "augmented") humans - who have provided it already and accumulated it there. [There was some article regarding that, for the time-traveler and a woman with a smartphone behind a curtain] People mostly just click buttons and tap on colourful icons, fighting for their attention. "Sixteen-core" smartphones with 4K cameras and 4 GB RAM - used to take pictures of meals or 100 shots of the night at the disco, or to send an 80-characters of a tweet, with an opinion "Listening to ... Feeling amazing". That's the sad "progress" of average people's intelligence...

For example most computer users, even engineers, do not have enough talent to conceive or design a computer from scratch, even an ABC-UNIVAC-like, they know how to push buttons the right way.

Nowadays the average people still can't play musical instruments, draw decently, dance decently, write stories and do lots of otherwise trivial activities, which talented people have done thousands of year ago. These ones still appear as "magical" for ordinary people - they just cannot get it. [See "multidomain and inter-domain blindness" in this blog and on the AGIRI list discussions.]

That is about to change, but the intelligence would be in the machine anyway, if you create something with a click of a button and you do not understand it deeply enough to model it with other means, it's the technology that does the job.

The technology, namely the dopamine-related short-circuits that are shocking the prefrontal-cortex through the exposure ot television, cheap reinforcement learning reward-cycles on social media, computer games and all sorts of blinking random pieces of images and text online, all these make the majority of people ever more superficial and having shorter attention span.

The questions which appear to them as "ground-breaking" or "unanswered" or "scandalous" were clarified and "scraped" down to their conceptual bones long ago, not only (or not by) the "VIP" figures that you mention, and these ideas are neither that new, nor that revolutionary.

Humans are already "augmented", every technology is extending their capacity, the "physical" merging and when it starts is a matter of a degree, both spatio-temporal and of effectiveness. The boundary is also not that sharp and is artificial - the retina is considered a part of the brain, the lenses of the eye and the pupil - they are also doing "preprocessing" - projecting and focussing. The only obvious "selfness" of the receptors in the body is that they have parts that are living cells, but without stimuli the receptors do nothing. For example, they say that blind-deaf people do not even try to explore the world, if left untouched (physically). They just freeze and stay, there's no external sensory stimulation, and their cognitive capacity is useless.

There are also philosophical views, such as externalisms, and the "extended mind" which point out the obvious fact, that humans are tightly bonded with the "tools" in the external world. We've been using the environment to do cognitive jobs in all times - I'd say that sensing itself is a form of basic preprocessing, in philosophical terms it's converting of the "thing in itself" in Kantian sense into phenomenons. The degree and the way of doing it is changing, and making people say "wow" that something is "new, revolutionary, ground-breaking" - it's a trick from marketing and propaganda, a boring way to grab attention of people who don't really care about the essence, but just about anything shocking, "new", "extraordinary", provided by some high-status "prophets". I assume talks about aliens, UFO or some religious mysteries may provoke similar interest...

The "concessus" among the wise men who are working in that theoretical field, for example on "what is human" (what "should be considered", apparently, or what humans think is human, or why humans want that they are "special" and how they rationalize that etc. etc.) is another topic.

Reaching to a concensuss is impossible between people with hugely varying intelligence, the majority wouldn't even get the real questions. It's rather about political sciences, public relations, pleasing the audience or scaring it out - as explained above.

IMHO the most deep works will never reach the minds of the ones who are not smart enough, and the superficial discussions and making people "involved" with the subjects are not understanding, it's just impressions, well a sort of... "techno-impressionism".

Current average people and also most of the "clever" ones still do not understand centuries old philosophy or also science and maths (pick for example Calculus), they may only see some illustrations, flashy expressions of the deep truth from such works, but they will not *understand* the "mechanics" behind, just "feel" something emotional or a shadow, or recite some words related to it.

Read More

Singulaity 1 on 1 - Series of Podcast Interviews | Видео канал с трансхуманистки интервюта от Никола Данаилов

A valuable resource of interviews with various famous persons on transhumanism and singularity:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ndanaylov/videos

Good job for the author Nikola Danaylov!

He has a blog, too.


Интересен канал с интервюта с известни личности от различни сфери относно въпроси за трансхуманизма и технологичната сингулярност.

Read More

Nietzsche is a XIX-century Transhumanist... - Философът Фридрих Ницше е трансхуманист от 19-ти век...

Have you thought about that? :)

The concept of Superman (Übermensch), one to whom current humans are like the apes to humans.

Check his work for yourself, right from the beginning: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1998/1998-h/1998-h.htm

I won't discuss the work as a whole, the "new moral", and Nazi's abuse of the term "Superman".

I care for Nietzsche's "Superman" from a transhumanist point of view: a superman in cognitive and functional sense.

The "dead God" and the creation of a new god is the advent of science and technology, the work had apparently been influenced by the then-new evolution theory of Darwin.

The "creation of God" is the "singularity", the ultimate advent of technology and the creation of either cyborgs, DNA-or-whatever enhanced humans, and a self-improving general intelligence/AGI/AI.

Zarathustra seems to crave for fast progress and criticizes the sluggishly developing society and  humanity. I sympathize with him on that point - people are not aware of the unexpected technology that is coming very soon and will make a lot of the current things obsolete and archaic. I've shared some thoughts about the absurd archaism in some human activities, and their end in the form they exist now*, I will explain more in a dedicated work.

Enjoy! :)

---
* Of course, there's a chance that people would reject some of the technologies which will make other technologies absurd and obsolete and would make the people to question their-own superiority etc., I think it's in fact likely to happen so...

However this is so consonant with a "superhuman-human" and a "human-ape" relations. See the movie "The Planet of the Apes" (1968) and put yourself in the human's from the future shoes  - you might be intellectually and technologically superior, but your "enemy" might be yet physically vastly stronger and more aggressive than you, especially if there's a small amount of transhumanists and a huge amount of people who don't understand and don't accept to live together with thinking machines.

 History tells about such events, when barbarian hordes annihilate civilizations and societies which are centuries or a millennium ahead of them. That's one of the unfortunate possibilities if humanity rejects the technologies and the new technological species that will revolutionize their life.
 (I deliberately don't specify what exact things I'm talking about, see in a more elaborate paper.)

By the way, recently I found that case told in a humorous SF short story of the Bulgarian writer Lyuben Dilov. Humanity gets in touch with extraterrestrial civilization, the aliens leave an ambassador on Earth. He notices that human race has a lot of social problems and has undeveloped technologies, so he shares know-how in medicine and in an uncorrupted and fair-minded political system. The humanity rejects both. The new inventions would change the corrupted system and the status-quo and would steal the power from the corrupted politicians - nobody would agree to use it. The only technology humanity accepts are books, which can fit in a bead, so they may collect them. Well, we already have those books... :)

** Thanks to S.  for reminding me about the "Übermensch" concept of Nietzsche, when I've spoken with him about related social aspects of the up-coming transhumanism era, compared to the current state of the affairs.

See also:  Philosophical and Interdisciplinary Discussion on General Intelligence, AGI and Superintelligence Safety and Human Moral | Cognitive Origins of the Concepts of Human Soul and its Immortality | Free Will and How it Originates Cognitively | Animate Being and Soul and the Cognitive Reason for the Believe that "Thinking Machines can't have a Soul and Consciousness" |  Technology  Making us more Humane | The Egoism of Humanity | And more

Thus Spake Zarathustra by Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

Translator: Thomas Common
 http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1998/1998-h/1998-h.htm

3.

....I TEACH YOU THE SUPERMAN. Man is something that is to be surpassed. What have ye done to surpass man?

All beings hitherto have created something beyond themselves: and ye want to be the ebb of that great tide, and would rather go back to the beast than surpass man?

What is the ape to man? A laughing-stock, a thing of shame. And just the same shall man be to the Superman: a laughing-stock, a thing of shame.

Ye have made your way from the worm to man, and much within you is still worm. Once were ye apes, and even yet man is more of an ape than any of the apes.

Even the wisest among you is only a disharmony and hybrid of plant and phantom. But do I bid you become phantoms or plants?

Lo, I teach you the Superman!

The Superman is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: The Superman SHALL BE the meaning of the earth!....



Tags: philosopy, философия, Ницше, супермен, свръхчовек, трансхуманизъм, сингулярност, прогрес, научно-техническа-революция, наука, самоусъвършенстващи се мислещи машини, мислещи машини, универсален изкуствен разум; изкуствен интелект, човешки интелект; ум, напредък; маймуни, човекоподобни, Планетата на маймуните, филм.

Read More