Ben Goertzel about the Lack of Genuine Creativity in Almost all Human Jobs (Agreed)

Facing Superintelligence (with Ben Goertzel)

Future of Life Institute

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24 938 показвания 23.05.2025 г. Future of Life Institute Podcast https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0bsd-4TWZE

 1:03:43

yeah while I'm not an optimist that LLMs can lead to human level AGI because I

1:03:49

think they don't have creativity in in a fundamental sense I I am an optimist

1:03:55

that LLMs with minor additions and tweaks

1:04:01

could take over like 95% of of of human jobs i I agree with Sam Alvin [Altman] on that

1:04:07

point i just think that 95% of human jobs I mean as a vague handwavy figure

1:04:14

can be done without fundamental creativity or or or or inventiveness so if you have a system that can do really

1:04:21

clever nearest neighbor matching against everything people have done as recorded on the internet like most of what people

1:04:28

are doing is a repetition of something that's already been done and recorded on on on the internet right so I I mean I

1:04:34

mean I I I I I think that we could roll out deep neural net

1:04:41

driven systems to do tremendous variety of human jobs right now

1:04:49

it's not happening that fast just because that's not how society and indust and industry are

1:04:56

are are organized right and and then that that becomes more a socio-csychological question i mean a a

(...)

Agreed. That one was also a citation from the Internet, LOL. Something a bit creative or not uttered this way:

"Internet" = "everything". ... an enormous precomputed, sorted, organized, prepared, ... super fast memory for everything with search, preprocessing etc. The lack of creativity is true not only for the jobs, but for the human activities and "universe's" activities. Preservation is the bigger part than progress - etc. - see The Sacred Computer's literature.

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The Godfather of AI repeats ideas of the Child Prodigy of the Thinking Machines 24-22 years later

The Godfather of AI is *reproducing* ideas of the Child Prodigy of the Thinking Machines 24-22 years later*: *(Part I of the matches):

The Child: Todor Arnaudov, 17 years old, 12.2001, from: "Man and Thinking Machine: an Analysis of the Possibility of Creating a Thinking Machine and Some Shortcomings of Humans and Organic Matter in Comparison to it.", The Sacred Computer, #13 (translated from Bulgarian with ChatGPT): "[before the citation begins, there are definitions about consciousness, related to what's now popular as an easier problem of consciousness" - intelligence as cognitive capabilities, behavior etc. vs the "hard" problem - spiritual, subjective experience etc. - see the work, the Theory of Universe and Mind etc.]):

"... If this is what consciousness is, then the thinking machine will undoubtedly have it. But if consciousness is the 'feeling of sensory perceptions,' then intelligent behavior does not necessarily mean the presence of consciousness, just as the lack of intelligence cannot prove the absence of consciousness. Personally, I am not entirely sure that consciousness in the sense of the 'feeling' of thoughts and emotions—experienced the way we humans (including myself) feel it—is solely the result of the joint activity of billions of neurons in the brain, of the complexity of their connections, and so on. It's easy to ask: where exactly is our 'self' located? Maybe 'we' are in the totality of billions of neurons? Fine — but if we remove one neuron from the whole (something that happens constantly, as neurons continuously die and are not replaced), and then another, and another, and so on — at what point do we cross the boundary after which a person will lose their self-awareness, will no longer feel what is happening, even though their external behavior still suggests that they do?", Todor Arnaudov, 17 years old, 2001

* The original in a geocities' archive:
https://www.oocities.org/eimworld/eimworld13/izint_13.html (or see the excerpt below)

The Godfather (and Grandfather): * Geoffrey Hinton, 77 years old, June 2025 in an interview:

"Godfather of AI: I Tried to Warn Them, But We’ve Already Lost Control! Geoffrey Hinton",The Diary Of A CEO

https://youtu.be/giT0ytynSqg?t=3939 Transcript from Youtube:

" suppose i take your brain and i take one brain cell in

1:05:44: your brain and i replace it by this a bit black mirror-l like i replace it by

1:05:50: a little piece of nanotechnology that's just the same size that behaves in exactly the same way when it gets pings

1:05:56: from other neurons it sends out pings just as the brain cell would have so the other neurons don't know anything's

1:06:02: changed okay i've just replaced one of your brain cells with this little piece of nanotechnology; would you still be

1:06:08: conscious now you can see where this argument is going yeah so if you replaced all of them as i replace them all at what point do you stop being conscious? 

--> The matches continue ... (At least two important points and I didn't watch the whole)

Visit the virtual conference SIGI-2025: https://github.com/twenkid/sigi-2025

* The Godfather or the Grandfather - both are true in the context of the "Child", LOL.

An AI joke:

How the Godfather knows ... -- this will go to another post or a short on Youtube; also  do you know why Connor ... well - maybe you'll guess, but verify it later. 

Оригинал на български (the bold font is from the original text):

"... Ако това е съзнанието, ММ несъмнено ще го има. Но ако съзнанието е "усещането на сетивните възприятия", то разумно поведение не значи непременно наличие на съзнание, както и липсата на разум не може да докаже отсъствието на съзнание. Лично за себе си не съм напълно сигурен, че съзнанието в смисъл на "усещане" на мислите и чувствата по начина, по който го усещаме ние хората (в частност и моя милост), се дължи само на съвместната работа на милиардите неврони в главния мозък, от сложността на връзките и пр.. Лесно да се запитаме къде точно се намира нашето "Аз" ? Може би "ние" сме в съвкупността от милиарди неврона? Добре, ако отстраним един неврон от цялото (това е нещо, което се случва постоянно, невроните непрекъснато умират и не биват замествани от нови)? Ако продължим и премахнем още един, и още един и така нататък, кога ще стигнем до границата, след която човекът ще загуби своето самосъзнание, няма да усеща това което се случва, въпреки че външните му прояви показват, че го усеща?"

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The correct visionary predictions about AI and Creative intelligence from 2013 and the new top AI leaders rediscovering them and repeating it literally a decade later when they became obvious for the laymen

 Sam Altman, CEO of OpenAI, founded in 2015 in 2023:

        https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VVBAy1cPACw 

"Yeah, it probably is just like, we look in a hundred years, it can do the whole creative job ... I think it's interesting that if you asked people 10 years ago about how AI will have an impact, with a lot of confidence from almost ... most people you would've heard ... first it's gonna come from the blue collar jobs, working in the factories, truck drivers, whatever ... Then it will come from the low skill white collar jobs. Then the very high skill, like really high IQ white collar jobs, like programmer or whatever... and maybe very last of all and maybe never, it's gonna take the creative jobs. ... and it's really gone exactly ... it is going exactly the other direction.  ... I think there's  an interesting reminder here, generally about how hard predictions are, but more specifically about we're not always very aware .. maybe even ourselves of what skills are hard and easy. Like what uses most of our brain and what doesn't  .... how difficult bodies are to control or make or whatever. ", 28.2.2023 (video date),      "We thought it would be blue collar jobs, but creative, white collar jobs find themselves in the early crosshairs for AI technology."

Todor Arnaudov,  founder, "CEO", "CTO", "R&D" and "blue collar" at The Sacred Computer AGI institute, founded in 2000:

" Creative Intelligence will be First Surpassed and Blown Away by the Thinking Machines, not the "low-skill" workers whose jobs require agile and quick physical motion and interactions with human-sized and human-shaped environment",  published on 2.10.2013:
(an answer to wrong prediction by an "expert", hugely cited afterwards and hired by Oxford University) https://artificial-mind.blogspot.com/2013/10/creative-intelligence-will-be-first.html

"""(...)

The "creative intelligence" is hard for the humans, especially hard for average people and average researchers, engineers or whatever to understand and explain.

They don't understand their own intentions, "schema", behavior, reasons, they don't know why they do or choose precisely what they did etc., can't remember and analyse that information good enough.

And the overall problem is not that versatile general intelligence is so complex, it is that the humans are too dumb to fit it in their tiny "RAM".

(...)

"The low-skill workers which are agile and fit in human environment (for example waiters) are harder to get replaced by humanoid robots - those robots are not yet mass produced and for a long time will be more expensive and harder to build than to hire a human. Also humans like human waiters, especially attractive women.

For the intellectual jobs - it's much easier to pick a computer, run the appropriate software or connect it to the service, and get it thinking - you already have decent cameras, microphones and many sensors even in smartphones.

There are tens of billions of already available computers - or much more? - and many of them in my estimates are fast enough even now, and even 5 or 10 years ago, for many "highly intellectual" human-level and super-human level activities.

Actually computers were super humans for many decades - from the beginning, but that's another topic.

The bottom line is that the "white collars" are more endangered in current-time economy. Perhaps that kind of economy could hardly survive the AGI revolution.

I guess it may turn upside down for a while - the low-skill workers could get higher pay, because intellectual activities will be done in 1 ms for free... ;)

We, the smart guys (the smart asses, see "Super Smartasses" the graphical series ) wouldn't be needed by anyone... Not that we are needed now. :))

Maybe the change won't be that big. :D

""""

One of the side reasons for the incompetence of the "experts" up to now when they see the obvious, is that they themselves are "white collars" and they see the "blue collars" as inferior to them.  Actually many of the so called "clever" or "high IQ" white collars are not such, the metrics are wrong etc. (...)

See other comments by the same author in this email list etc. [AGI List] in the early 2010, such as that "intelligence is way simpler than it seems" (for the most humans, who don't understand or hardly cope even with trivial creative writing, music composition or performance; or programming etc.** ).

Of course, also the Moravec paradox, however it was not about the "creative" part, it's about "computers do only what tell them to do". Creativity was supposed to be something else and "radically different" and this is reflected in the wrong view of most homo sapiens.

...

If you can, join and support:

The Sacred Computer: Thinking Machines, Creativity and Human Development
The true visionary AGI research institute, even when it was run by a single boy with his obsolete PCs in late 1990s-early 2000s. LOL. (See the book below: ....*)

Visit and participate in the online year-long virtual conference Thinking Machines 2025/SIGI-2025:

https://github.com/twenkid/SIGI-2025

* The world's first modern AI strategy was published in 2003 by an 18-years old Bulgarian and replicated and implemented by the whole world 15-20 years later: The Bulgarian Prophecies: How would I invest one million with the greatest benefit for my country?, T.Arnaudov, 31.3.2025, a monograph/"multigraph", 248 pages

https://artificial-mind.blogspot.com/2025/04/the-worlds-first-ai-strategy-was-published-in-2003-by-an-18-years-old-bulgarian.html

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